Thursday, May 05, 2016

I'm Not Convinced

Neville Smit has an angry blog post on his blog titled Occupy New Eden:
Matterall, the host of the "Talking in Stations" podcast, invited me to join the panel on last week's show. He had read my posts about Fanfest 2016, and it seems we have a similar point of view on the event's content: essentially, we were both underwhelmed.

During our conversation, I reiterated my complaint that the bulk of Fanfest's content catered mostly to the interests of players who operate in null security space. For those of us who dwell mostly in high-sec, low-sec and w-space, there was not much news.
The "Occupy New Eden" Manifesto
It is easy to complain about the current state of affairs, but that serves no purpose without a clear vision of how to improve upon the status quo. Those of us who play mostly outside of null-sec space are feeling increasingly ignored and disenfranchised. What would a better EVE Online look like for us in the 85 percent?
He then goes on to list many ideas of what he would like see that would benefit players in high sec as well as tangentially those in low sec and null sec and wormhole space. He ends the post with:
Some of this vision may apply equally well to null-sec space, but most of it is specific to options outside of 0.0. These are the kinds of things that the majority of players in EVE Online want to see developed and incorporated into the game.
I invite anyone who wants to see more attention and development allocated to the interests of those of us who do not principally play in null-sec to join me in this campaign. Perhaps it is time we finally get together, and start an "Occupy New Eden" movement. Perhaps then CCP might sit up and take notice of their largest subscriber constituency, and give us our due.
I am the 85 percent. Who's with me?

I'm not convinced, for three reasons.

First of all, I'm a firm believer that we should not identify ourselves by where we spend most of our time. I know a lot of "low sec" pilots with high sec, null sec, and wormhole alts for either mixing things up or making ISK. I know a lot of null sec pilots have high sec Incursion alts. Wormholers... well, they are just weird. The point is, content introduced in one area is typically a tide that raises all boats, at least by a little in some areas. For example, when the Encounter Surveillance System was introduced for null sec ratting, it opens up an opportunity for wormhole or low sec roamers to interact with null sec pilots in PvP scenarios, even if its just stealing some LPs.

Secondly, I feel that null sec has not beneficiary of direct null-only expansions from the deployment of Dominion in late 2009 to the jump changes of Phoebe in late 2014, which was a contributing factor to the stagnation and doldrums of that region for years. In the mean time, low sec and high sec got new special rats and exploration, crimewatch overhaul, bounty hunting (meh), Crius industry changes, new mining barges, new exploration content. Some of these things impacted null sec as well to various degrees, but for the most part it languished.

Thirdly, I don't think the changes and additions in Citadel expansion are null sec directed at all. Citadels will see widespread use in all areas of space for many different reasons. The capital changes impact low sec and wormhole space just as significantly as null sec, perhaps more so in some scenarios.

This is all not to say that we should not be pushing for the ehancements and additions Neville is pushing for in his blog. Quite the opposite, I think we should always push for improvements and expansions. But to say this expansion was Null sec focuses only is not something I agree with, and even if it was, I think its fair that some serious attention is paid to null sec for a bit.


  1. I'd argue Crius was a nullsec expansion. Expansion of industry slots in Outposts, lowest industry costs, extra cost for building in popular systems. From start to finish it was designed to push people to move from the big industry hubs and made nullsec the most attractive option in game mechanics.

    It just failed at it.

    1. Channeling Dinsdale:

      Highsec ratting, mining, production, all are down since Crius.

      They've not gone to other parts of the game, they've just gone.

      It was a great success in removing competition against Nullsec, which is what it was intended to do.

      It's CCP's idea of competition: "One area of space can do it, others can't".

    2. Please tell me it didn't sound like I went Full Dinsdale. Please.

    3. No, of course you didn't.

      But your "failure" is Dinsdale's point, if see what I mean?

    4. Nice to see my name and views continue to keep popping up. (yeah, I am a bit of a narcissist, and it would be great of I could sort out my passwords so I could actually post with the Dinsdale name). Sadly, it is because I was right.

      High sec industry was indeed wiped out with Crius, as designed. And yes, all the null sec cartel controlled dev's will scream "no no, we just made it more fair". But if it is so damn difficult and profit margins so thin, that the casual player cannot or will not do that industry anymore, well, then the intent was indeed to wipe out high sec industry.

      Does anyone else note that the null sec devs when they removed the "pull factor" of Crius, namely teams, they still left the "push factor", in the game. That was as clear a signal about their hatred of high sec as anything.

      I do very much wish I was a billionaire. First order of business would be to buy up controlling interest in CCP, fly there, and personally throw a number of dev's out of the building. Then hire some sane people with no allegiances to the cartels, roll back about 7 years of attacks on high sec, fix the NPE (so much easier than the propaganda makes it out to be). and then watch the money flow in as players arrive and STAY.

    5. And Dinsdale shows up and perfectly illuminates what you mean Rob. :)

  2. I am the 85%. Neville does not speak for me.

  3. You're missing the point by a million miles.

    The point is that lots of people feel like CCP has not given them enough for years and plans to keep ignoring them based on what CCP has done and what was seen (and not seen) at Fanfest.

    If that was a perception problem, it still would be a serious issue. But is not a perception problem. Is a very real problem since CCP is effectively focusing on certain demographics and backburning certain others. Yet all them pay to play the game in one way or another, and they all are entitled to be retained with new content as that's what CCP does to stay in business: throw new toys and shuffle the old ones so players feel they should keep playing EVE.

    Unless that now increasingly more people feel they've been ignored by CCP's vision of large player entities fighting over space and structures... like some minorities do in nullsec... Meanwhile, people who play alone get not enough. People who shoot NPCs or rocks get not enough. People who doesn't needs or uses or shoots structures get not enough.

    And any hopes of getting anything else but more bloody structures to shoot at were wiped clean by Fanfest 2016.

    The point is not whether there is a collective called the 85% or whether structures-to-shoot-at are a nullsec only business or don't. The point is that a large, diverse and mostly silent majority of people don't pay CCP to get structures-to-shoot-at, and CCP haves shared no plans to do anything else for the next two years or longer.

    1. And I argued that they have not been ignored for as long as null sec players have been. You've missed my point by a million miles.

    2. "The point is that lots of people feel like CCP has not given them enough for years and plans to keep ignoring them based on what CCP has done and what was seen (and not seen) at Fanfest."

      "The point is not whether there is a collective called the 85% or whether structures-to-shoot-at are a nullsec only business or don't. The point is that a large, diverse and mostly silent majority of people don't pay CCP to get structures-to-shoot-at, and CCP haves shared no plans to do anything else for the next two years or longer."

      You're welcome to come back to the discussion whenever you feel like talking about the matter of the people who are a) a massive majority and b) are being ignored by CCP to their own risk.

    3. So answer the million dollar question then. What feature or area or general item can CCP work on that will help this allegedly neglected 85% and that won't also be for null sec? How do you hit that 85% with something they ALL want?

      Because all I have seen is requests for things that are for other small segments of the population of New Eden, which sounds more like, "Put my little group at the head of the line" rather than serving this "massive majority."

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  5. [comment deleted an d reposted cause I kant spel...]
    You all do realize that CCP doesn't create anything but PVE, right? All the PVP is created solely by the players using the Sand, and shovels and buckets CCP makes.. all "Environment" by definition. ALL of the existing PVE was and is and will be created by CCP... but WWB was created ONLY by the players... CCP had no hand in that AL ALL.

    CCP has spent far more man YEARS on PVE that on anything else... I know the argument will be, "But they are too focused an the mechanics around Nullsec Sov and all the new stuff is really FOR nullsec." I say no, they aren't. I say they are working the road map just as CCP Segull laid out.

    Structures was the last of the Big Four announced years ago... now we are moving into in the dev time between that and the PBSGs & New Space... They JUST gave up the new "POSes" we have been screaming for FFS... have some goddamn faith and see what comes next.

    Everybody's a drama lama anymore... and TBH it is puttin a major cramp in my desire to blog at all... not that I have any impact or would even be missed, but Jezuz damn, people... give the drama a rest huh? CCP has so far delivered in a big way on some major stuff... have some faith FFS. I do.

    1. By that logic every deathmatch shooter is PVE. The devs just built the environment, handed out the guns and balanced the guns, but until people start shooting each other it's just an elaborate PVE architecture walkthrough.

      CCP spend a whole lot of time balancing ships, weapons systems, modules, and a rogues gallery of mechanics for PVP... yet not actually spending any time making anything for PVP.

      No, just no.

  6. I dont like all the 85% nonsense. But I had the impression that ccp had been thinking of moving in the direction of a pve revamp for this year/next year. Probably they dont have the manpower/talent anymore to and do the rest of the structures this year and do a serious effort on the pve revamp. It would also not surprise me if the so called going back to expansions from the six week schedule has more to do, with developers quickly burning out on such tight 6 week schedules more then any marketing gig that expansions would be better, which from a customer perspective they clearly arent. Much more was done in a year time , last year, due to the six week schedule then in any expansion year before or probably after.