Thursday, October 29, 2015

More Thoughts about the Capital Changes

The biggest single change in all the announcement was that not only was the carrier class being divided into a logistic platform (Force Auxiliary, a terrible name BTW) and a combat platform (Carrier), but that capital remote reps would only work effectively in triage mode (of which only the former new ship can use). Previously a ship could drop out of triage and receive reps while still handing them out, but now remote repping fleets of carriers happily throwing the healing hitpoints on each other is dead.

The main target of this change was the dreaded Slowcat fleet doctrine, where a large fleet of remote repping Archons would land on the field and dare an opponent to try and kill a single carrier. Only a sufficiently large dreadnought fleet or titan fleet with the alpha strike to kill an Archon outright can hope to challenge it.

I don't believe there will be unintended consequences in low sec from this change. Carriers were rarely used in an offensive manner for their fighters, so I expect the new Force Auxiliary (ugh) capital to take its place in the hangers of mid to large sized groups in low sec when extra repping power is needed, usually as part of an escalation of a sub cap fight where one side wants to fight outnumbered but lacks the bodies for a regular logi wing.

The real question is what will the role of the new carrier class be? With dreadnoughts getting sub-cap capable weapons, will the fighter-only aspect of carriers give them any advantage over a dreadnought fitted for sub-cap warfare? Will carrier be a mid-level between battleships and dreadnought, or will CCP try to carve a separate niche for the carrier apart from pure DPS? The model of carriers/super-carriers fitting their fighter squadrons for particular role intriguing and might give capitals a form of non-DPS warfare options, but there is a very thin line between useless and overpowered when it comes to capital dynamics in warfare.

Will super carriers get a role in low sec under this change? Will low sec entities have the money and fortitude to build XL citadels with super capital docking facilities? If so, then super carriers will appear in low sec more. If not, I expect them to continue to be rare. Part of that question hinges on if the new area of effect weapons work in low sec, and if so, are they effective for low sec sized combat.

Need more details!


  1. Man... what is the problem with Force Auxiliary? Fleets are often called a "Force" and as these new Carrier Logi are 'support' ships not 'fighting' ships they are auxiliary to, IE 'additional' to, the main force. Hence "Force Auxiliary"... I like it.

    May I ask does your dislike stem from some rational or just "I don't like it."?

    1. Sorry, I have to agree with Kirith here. The word "Auxiliary" holds a place in my heart in regards to the Roman legions, where it included anyone other than the backbone - the legionary. I don't think medic wing when I think of it.

      How about we call them MASHes? I can imagine the memes now, juxtaposing Vietnam imagery with Eve.

      Or how about just calling the whole class Triages? The module is going to be obsolete now, isn't it?

    2. My main complaint is that the word is awkward to say, so many syllables, and as Talvorian pointed out the meaning is not quite accurate in what I think these ships do. Force Support would at least be more accurate, but I'd like a more sci-fi name or evocative name, like Dreadnought or Titan. Perhaps Reinforcement class, or Redoubt class.

      I'm also not a fan of Electronic Attack Frigates because of the length.

      If they stick with Force Auxiliary, we'll call them Force Aux ships for sure.

    3. Kirith!!! Lord love ya man!!! Auxiliary is hard to say??? Then flying in New Eden with it's mishmash of unpronounceable systems names must be sheer hell on ya man! LOL

      And Tal... your argument is actually FOR the term in it's finest use... as Logistical Support Units are NOT part of the 'backbone" of a Military Force (the trooper, the foot-soldier, the legionary) (and yes the Roman Legions hold a place near and dear in my heart as well as yours)... then Logistical Support units are, by that definition, adjunct, additional, add-on, attached, IE AUXILIARY support assets.

      I like the name... hope it stays. =]

  2. I recall CCP mentioning how the new carriers will have different groups of fighters for each purpose.

    Ex. fighters for killing subs, fighter bombers for killing caps + structures.

  3. Unlike dreads, carriers have utility highs, which are now that they can't remote-rep are empty. You can put smartbombs or neuts into them. I think a future carrier will not only dish out 1-2 battleship worth of DPS with much more tank, but also neut out nearby enemies and smartbomb off frigates.