Kirith - my understanding is that SC damage to subcaps is minimal at best (of course you have aggregated damage from dozens of supers but that's aggregate damage). Did they bring such balanced super+subcap fleets that your leadership really couldn't get enough pilots to make it a fight, or was there a higher-level lack of desire to lose internet spaceship pixels?I was so taken aback that someone that Supercarriers were a minimal threat to sub-caps that I simply replied:
This isn't pointed at you - but leadership who chose not to fight even at the subcap level, or failed to do so successfully. It's not like they had enough Titans to DD your entire subcap fleet in one volley, or did they?
A supercarrier can launch 20 Orge II or 20 Warrior IIs, etc. A supercarrier has hundreds of thousand effective hitpoints, a powerful ECM burst. Titans doomsdays work on battleships, cruisers, etc in some (many?) cases.Today I want to add some basic EFT numbers to my assertion.
Simply put, your average sub-cap fleet (hell, cap fleet) when hotdropped by 20-40+ supercarriers and titans dies while taking none of the enemy ships with them.
Add to that the enemy subcap fleets and titan jump portals and you have a recipe for disaster.
Our target supercarrier will be me Wyvern with an estimated 2.7 million shield points and 90% shield resistances at the least. We're going to ignore shield recharge for this discussion.
Our opponents have a fleet of Abaddons, let's say geared for damage in the range of 1000 DPS with pulse lasers and drones. Nice easy round numbers.
So if you had a fleet of 50 Abaddons firing on the Wyvern, it would go down in about 9 minutes, ignoring shield recharge and other ships repping it, getting jammed from the ECM Burst, losing ships, etc.
Now our Abaddons have 166,000 armour hit points at average 75% resistances and the Wyvern using Fighters does about 2000 DPS per second. That means the Wyvern kills an Abaddon every 6 minutes, ignoring reps from logistics.
So what happens when 10 Wyverns meets 50 Abaddons? Before the first Wyvern can be destroyed about 15 Abaddons are dead, making it impossible for the remaining 35 to actually kill that Wyvern in 9 minutes, and every 6 minutes another 10 are dead... simply put, the Abaddons would be wiped out without a single Wyvern loss.
Double the number of Abaddons and you have more success until the enemy doubles the number of Wyverns. And so on.
To put it quite simply, I'd estimate that for a sub-cap fleet to defeat a super carrier fleet it needs about 10 to 1 odds, and I'm wondering if that its perhaps an exponential growth ratio. And throw on to all of that the 15 minute logoff timer meaning a subcap fleet has to defeat its target in a set amount of time before it is safe, and you get the frustrating situation facing battleship pilots today: barring extraordinary circumstances, a subcap fleet cannot win against a supercap fleet.
(The situation gets worse with the massive armour hitpoints of the Aeon or the higher damage fighters of the Nyx.)
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I realize this is a dead horse, but the fact remains Supercarriers are overpowered. Too flexible against any target (except large POS towers), massive tactical and strategic range, and a tank that requires massive firepower to overcome. In ones and twos, they can be dealt with; but in 10s and 50s they are an unopposable force without your own fleet of them.
We could move up to Dreadnoughts and we would find the situation only marginally better as they have a lot more hitpoints but do only marginally more damage unless in siege mode, and with the numerous spies in the organizations any large mobilization of dreadnoughts will either warn the enemy to retreat from the field or the more likely possibility of get more supercaps online.