Monday, June 09, 2014

Even Veterans Can Be Inexperienced

Last night we got a learning experience. 

Which is a kind way of saying we got slapped around a little. I'll let corpie Vic Vorlon tell the overall tale and then I'll provide my view:
There have been a lot of gate camps in our area recently. I'll have to either move my factory work from Yvangier to a closer system to avoid losses, or get a more expensive ship and better cloaking skills (like the MWD trick). It also gives our corp some targets to aim for.
Speaking of which, we set up a pretty large fight in Heydieles last night against a fleet from alliance "That Escalated Quickly". It was pretty tense as we tussled for location; we started in a large faction warfare plex so they couldn't use a cyno to bring an Archon, but they didn't engage us. We headed to a stargate and after jumping through once or twice we finally engaged. We had about 35 in fleet, 13 Vexors for DPS, Blackbirds for jamming, 6 Exeqs for logi. They had 10 battleships (I think?) and an Archon. Our plan, however, didn't work and we were unable to kill our first target. As our ships began to die (Dominix, 4 Vexors, 3 Exeqs, Blackbird) we bailed out. I survived, lucky for me!
It was very interesting to hear the discussion afterwards, with the FC and several knowledgeable players dissecting the fight, deciding why it didn't work and what we could have done differently. Then they moved on to thinking about changes in fleet composition for the next fight. It was all calm, no recriminations or shouting, and it's scary how much these guys know about Eve!
On the flip side, that fight showed how much I still have yet to learn about Eve.

I was the Dominix pilot and my job was simple: get neuts on the Archon and try to cap him out so his reps would fail. I purchased a fully fit ship for the job from a corp mate and we went to get the fight. The fight started as they jumped to us and as soon as the Archon arrived (not sure if from Cyno or was in system already and warped to us) I put the lock on and started neuting like my life depended on it.

After a couple minutes of fighting we failed to break the reps on a Fleet Issue Tempest and then the full power of their fleet fell on me. I broadcast for reps but they were insufficient and I went down. Without the neutralizers of the Domi, we knew were we outmatched and disengaged.

During the debriefing we identified several mistakes including one or two of my own. The first was that I thought I needed to get all three heavy neuts and all three medium neuts on my ship working on the Archon, but really the heavies with their twice as long range were required. Since I thought the shorter ranged mediums were needed as well I flew very close to the Archon, too close, and didn't pay attention to how close I was to the battleships, especially the Megathrons. My second mistake was probably not restarting my Damage Control II module as I got capped out and my capacitor booster fired, leaving my resistances too low and making me easy prey.

I learned some lessons and next time I'll do better, but the point is that Eve is a never ending learning experience. You can get really good at frigate and destroyer combat and find yourself floundering in a battlecruiser or battleship fight, or vice versa. The main trick is to not get discouraged and keep pushing yourself.


  1. Couple of thoughts on your fit.

    T2 plates are better than RR Tungsten. They didn't used to be so some veterans may still be usng RR from habit. You might even have been able to squeeze on a third plate.

    You dont need drone damage amps at all. Active hardeners would have been good as you can overheat them. Resists are the best style of tanking when you fly with logi and are not likely to get alpha as it improves their efficiency.

    2 cap boosters.

    Regarding dual prop mjd + mwd I really like that for most situations. I'm not sure it was needed. Would you have had difficulty getting on the archon without them? It may be that just an AB would have been appropriate (you could use the grid saved for an extra cap booster).

    Target spectrum breaker breaks the locks of some of your own logi.

    Good old fashioned cap rechargers might have been a good option.

    Heavy neut drones might have been good.

    Regarding your plays if they neuted you out then well played them. If you neuted yourself out with over enthusiastic use of your heavy neuts to the point your tank turned off while being primaried that's poor cap management. Watch those old Kil2 videos for analysis on how important cap is in pvp.

    Regardless of anything else it may be that you simply wouldn't have been able to cap out a carrier alone in a domi. Possibly if you'd augorors with cap transfers you may have been able to stay capped up better, I guess that's not really a gallente thing :)

    And well done, sounds like a great fight. Also don't pay too much attention to me - I lost a rattlesnake tonight.

    1. "T2 plates are better than RR Tungsten. They didn't used to be so some veterans may still be usng RR from habit. You might even have been able to squeeze on a third plate.

      They are better in that they provide more HP, but at the cost of increased Mass and fitting requirements. The rest of what you say holds true though, more often than not if you can fit the Tech II, you should.

  2. Armageddon mate. Tis built for neuting shit and never put cap rechargers on PVP ships instead of cap boosters. Also for a stand up brawl you might have better luck with Augs instead of Exeqs.

    Failing that if there is caps on the field (not yours) get in touch with your local blob alice and organise a counter drop :P
    Probably would be Shadow Cartel in your guys case.

  3. That was a great fight even though we lost ships and had to pull out. Even though I've been playing on and off for many years, I also learned some things from the after action chat on comms. I'm still learning how to be a productive part of a large fleet fight. Finding the primary target quickly on that long list of targets on my overview, even after I've sorted it by name, is still a challenge. I'm looking on every encounter as a chance to learn something or refine my skills, win or lose. I think that is the most important attitude if you want to be successful in Eve.